It’s difficult me to write this post, because, well, I like Ryking’s political commentary a lot of the time, but I also try to be a male feminist, not to mention I am one of the worst people I know when it comes to writing. That being said, I have encountered and am following a group of feminist on tumblr who I believe represent what feminism really stands for. I am, however, following a group of people who have to resort to debating what I would call extreme feminists.
Then I saw STFUFauxminists post about feminist extremist not existing.
I agree, to a certain extent, that feminist extremist do not exist, when you think about the current feminist paradigm. However, there are people who march under the label of “feminist” but do not specifically march for the same causes. They do not wish for equality, but an inverted version of current society, with female privileges instead of male privileges, making males the oppressed and submissive group. And these people are, in my opinion, who Ryking were addressing.
(refer to their point of dreaming of a matriarchy).
I also believe that Ryking brought up another point which “extreme feminist” seem to abuse, the use of the male privileges refutation.
Yes, male privileges exist. Yes, they do bias male’s views on certain issues.
No, they do not instantly render all arguments and points males make moot and pointless/worthless.
Just because one has male privileges does not suddenly make their argument worthless. Countless times I have seem such “extreme feminist” (I do not think it is correct to use the word feminazi) dismiss valid criticisms and points because the person who proposed such views and brought them into the discussion were male and therefore had male privileges.
It is undeniably true that there are certain members within the tumblr feminist community who will use the “male privilege” argument as an argument of its own, rather than use it as an explanation as to where it applies and to specifically what argument it thus renders incorrect due to the bias of male privileges. Rather, they will apply it to a person and then claim ALL their views are incorrect.
One example I would like to point out is Anticapitalist’s post about the 3 things feminist don’t do. Although I disagree with some of the points within that post, one of them was something which I believe was true, the view of the draft and feminism.
I’m not American, and I do not know how the draft system works in the US with great detail. However, I am Korean and I do know about the Korean system of mandatory military service for males. Never have I ever seen feminists claiming that only having males do military service mandatory for 2 years was sexist and that females should also be included within the service. I have seen feminists actually argue the opposite, saying that it equals out the playing field due to the fact that while males are doing their service, their female counterparts may graduate from college, or get a job and thus build up more experience, thus creating an argument contradictory from their stance of equality for all sexes.
One my disregard this point by saying, “It’s Korea, who gives a fuck?”. However, the fact that it’s Korea did not stop an international outcry on the rural practice of aborting a child if she’s female, which then caused the government to pass a law making it illegal for a doctor to tell a pregnant women if the fetus she is carrying’s sex is male or female.
Nor has it stopped the international outcry against the cultural dish of dog meat soup, leading to a distortion of what actually happens, cultural stereotypes, and many bad glances at the words “I’m Korean.”
The fact of the matter is, in my views, that there is a certain group, parading under the banner of “feminists” who are not, in the canon definition, exactly feminists, and I do believe that it is part of the job of the feminist to community to identify when someone fits said description, even if their stance benefits females as a whole. I was introduced to feminism by the stance that it was for the equality of males and females, not the beating down of males so that females could then be the dominant sex.
/Ramblings and bad analysis with bad conclusion
I’m going to tread lightly here, because I like you and your blog a lot.
There was an excellent refutation of each and every point made by ryking by mirkwood. If you haven’t read it already, I highly recommend it. I’m not going to reiterate everything they said. I’m only going to refute your post.
I need to start off by saying that, as a Jewish person who has personally experienced the pain associated with what the Nazis did –actually, fuck that. As a human being with a memory, the use of the term feminazi is never acceptable. The term Nazi being attached to anything other than the original term it came from (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) is wrong in so many ways.
I understand that you stated that in your post, but I think that should be the first thing from that post by ryking to be acknowledged and not the existence of extreme feminism. No matter how extreme some people who claim to be feminists are, they have never systematically murdered, maimed, tortured, experimented on, degraded, dehumanized, and destroyed millions of people and their families. Using such a term minimizes those atrocities and minimizes the pain and suffering of anyone and everyone connected to those who experienced actual Nazis. The fact that anyone, no matter how witty or entertaining their blog is otherwise, can throw that term out so lightly, defend the use of it, and then make Hitler jokes in retaliation to criticism is absolutely and positively disgusting.
Also, ya know who coined the term “feminazi?” Rush Limbaugh and his bff Tom Hazlett. So for someone (as ryking does) who claims to be a liberal and frequently uses Limbaugh as a figure to mock to use the very term Limbaugh coined in a misogynistic attempt to silence women is beyond hypocritical.
Okay, now on to the issue of extreme feminism. Yes, there are some man-hating feminists out there. But guess what? They don’t adequately represent the cause that is feminism. They are actually anti-feminists in that their hatred of men ignores the ‘equality’ tenet at the basis of feminism, and erases people that do not identify as male or female. If you want to see an example of what feminism isn’t, watch “The Wicker Man.” I’m pretty sure that’s what people mean when they talk about extreme feminists. Even if these are the people that ryking was addressing, there is no need to call them feminazis.
Also, them “dreaming of a matriarchy” who the fuck does ryking think he is? Can he really see into the minds of people and judge what they dream of? That’s some of the most privileged bullshit I’ve ever heard. I mean seriously, a privileged man telling women they dream of matriarchy is the same as a privileged white person telling a group of POC they dream of [insert name of reversely privileged society here]; it’s possible some do, but the majority likely does not and assuming that the ones who do are somehow similar to Nazis is despicable.
No, just because one has male privilege doesn’t mean that their arguments are worthless. It makes them less valid because they aren’t coming from someone who has personally experienced anything other than that privilege. Men can and do still experience a form of sexism stemming from these gender binary roles society has created, about which men can form arguments because it is a form of oppression they have experienced. However the moment a man tries to tell a woman why it’s okay for her to be paid less on average than a male counterpart, or he tries to tell her (as ryking did) that she should be more than satisfied with the 19th amendment, his argument is worthless until he checks his privilege. There are always valid criticisms to be made of any position in any movement, but such criticisms should be made with respect and come from a perspective that takes into account the position of those not privileged.
I’ve been involved in feminist causes since I was 16. So while that’s only 8 years and there are many other tumblrers who’ve undoubtedly been involved for far longer, I’m going off my own personal experience here when I say that feminists do vehemently oppose the draft. I believe STFU Fauxminists and STFU Sexists have made posts about this before that were excellent and I can’t write as well as them, so I’m just going to give my own short spiel here. I don’t give a shit if it’s the US, Korea, or Mars, forcing someone to join the military against their will is not right. I don’t know who these “feminists” are that are saying it evens out the playing field because I’ve never heard of such a thing. Real feminists advocate men’s liberation because the current gender roles are just as harmful to men as they are women, and completely disregard the existence of people not strictly binary. That whole “even out the playing field” argument from people who claim to be feminists sounds like people who claimed they weren’t racists when they advocated “separate makes it equal” for schools, bathrooms, and everything else: complete and utter bullshit.
I’m guessing (not sure) why the female fetus thing got more attention is because there is also a strongly anti-choice undertone to religious Western culture; a strongly anti-choice undertone that also translates into further misogyny (do you see how it’s all connected?).
Regardless of that, I don’t see how this is related to the use of the word “feminazi” because those people clearly aren’t feminists. They are something else who parade under that banner. Calling them feminazis does nothing other than, as I’ve addressed above, erase and minimize horrific history, combine these anti-feminists with feminists to create a ridiculous judgment from a position of privilege, and reinforce the popular notion that feminists are bad.
Feminists are not bad. I know that you know that. I read your blog whenever I’m on tumblr. You wouldn’t be following me if you thought feminists were bad. I get that. I think you’re just mistaken. Anyone can claim to be a feminist just as anyone can claim to not be racist. That doesn’t make it true. People who claim to be feminists but want to “beat men down” are not feminists. They’re not feminazis.
They’re just assholes.